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Nerf Stick Beating More Than Skills?

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Aug 23, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05	#81
Kaida the Heartless Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2006 Profession: N/	Every 3-4 seconds actually. I'm not saying kiting is a bad thing, but I mean, when running, I am completely disabled and just stalling to eventually lose the fight. I last longer against a warrior! :/

Aug 23, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25	#82
mqstout Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pittsburgh	It's pretty clear the general concensus is that kiting is NOT a viable counter to a touch ranger. A snare may be, but very few builds have room for one.

Aug 23, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14	#83
Mithie Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Rest En Pieces [RIP] Profession: Me/W	You know what's a hard counter to Touchers? PSYCHIC DISTRACTION. No, it's not practical. No, you don't need any other skills because you won't be using them. But DAMN is this build hilarious to play. Vamp to... DISABLED. Vamp Bi... DISABLED! Makes me giggle every time.

Old

Aug 23, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

#84

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Guild: Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Kiting. It mitigates damage. I don't care if you say they have speedboosts to catch up to you, it only lasts so long and it's not spammable if you're kiting.

I'm done talking to idiots who think kiting is a solution to being snared and knocked down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Once again, I ask where the 20+ damage came from.

Because irresistable blow:
Does +24 damage if it hits (at level 12). If Irresistable blow is "blocked" your target suffers 24 damage and is knocked down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Rofl.
I love you, Shard.
Or maybe this just seems incredibly funny after 2 Am on a long day.

I love me too Alleji ^^ can you tell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

They arent. Nor do they need be. 1 word : snare
GG.
Stop getting "pwned" by them.
once again, 1 word. Snare.

Ok mr I-know-the-solution-to-everything, how many classes have snares? 3? From those 3 clases, hoe many builds use them? 1? I don't want my only solution to touch rangers to be "play a cripshot ranger." What if I want to play one of the other hundreds of builds in the game? Expertise is fine, they just need to change vampyric touch to a spell so you dont make a nonelite level 30 life transfer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

I am curious to know if you have actually faced iWAY

No, I've been pvping for ~8 months and have never faced iway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

and how come you think they always win.

Because I don't. You know what a person who assumes things from nothing is? I'm sure your local dictionary does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

They have no real self healing. If coupled with 2 squishy N/Mos they have mediocre healing (both of which can be taken down rather easily).

When in this thread did I talk about iway? All I said was they do this:
c + spacebar, rinse repeat. My problem isn't that they beat me, my problem is that they effortlessly (literally) beat new players who are actually trying to run a real build. You're saying C + spacebar should always beat actual thinking and strategizing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

The guilds that practice it like other guilds practice balanced/rspike/bspike/smite/etc are much more than your "c spacebar" iWAY.

Yeah, you're right. They're the C + spacebar + enter + talk trash for 5 minutes IWAY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

"Shardway" I wont even touch since you decided to add "way" to it for no apparent reason.

because it only existed for a few hours. Sand shards + exhausting assault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

Last but not least your nugget of wisdom :
(one warrior alone should never be able to kill one healer alone in any rpg)
GG. Thats about all I can say. GG. Monks should be godly and only the focused fire of 4 warriors, 3 mages, and 1 dragon should be able to do anything to them.

stop saying gg when you havent made a point. Look at other balanced games. I'll use Magic: the Gathering and DnD because I think everyone here knows what they are.
In Magic, no card deals more damage than its same costed counterpart for healing. (2 mana red cards deal 3 damage, 2 mana white cards give 4 life, and no alpha is not balanced so dont bring it up.)
in DnD, the lowest level heal gives what...1d6 health or something? the lowest level damage spells do 1d4 damage. it's how you say...GG.

Last edited by shardfenix; Aug 23, 2006 at 03:37 AM // 03:37..

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Aug 23, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03	#85
Unaccurate Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2006	I dont understand how you guys can think touchers are overpowered. Almost every build has a snare, and kiting is very very effective against anything that needs to be in melee range to attack. Just kite the touchers, and its over.

Old

Aug 23, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

#86

Russell.Crowe

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

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Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Until they fix expertise every new class with an dmg skill or weapon is going to deadly in a rangers hands.

They can change expertise to fix that imbalance without messing up its orginal intention. Just lower the it down to 1.5-2% energy reduction for 2nd class skills. That would not make much of a change but it would take more skill to run rather than spamming every skill on your bar over and over.

That way the rangers skills still get the full 3% while not making things like touchers, thumpers, and javalins stronger than what their Primary classes could do.

You do realize that actual rangers with a legitimate ranger build are waaaaaayyyy more annoying than any touchy, correct? I find a ranger spitting poison on everyone in arena play is much more annoying than a touchy focusing on a single friggin target. Why? because the actual ranger is doing more damage, just not to the same target every time. Expertise does not need a nerf, and if it was to be nerfed it would have happened by now so quit crying.

BTW kiting is still an effective method on touchies because it does slow their dps just like it will a warrior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

LOL

Here's why touchies need a surprise attack from the supah-nerfer.

- Incredibly strong versus elemental attacks due to armor type.
- Incredibly evasive versus physical due to all the stances.

There goes effective DPS against them.

- Immune to conditions via plague touch. Crippling would work if people knew how to kite to avoid being plague touched.
- Counter's any kiting via constant speed boosts. Want to run? They'll keep up with you. Your's is going to run out before theirs.

There goes kiting, unless your a mesmer but well get to that later.

- 65-71 damage, spammable, life stealing attack. Can be spammed approximately every second. This results in a 65 dps + healing move.

High self healing and damage at the same time.

So, a touch ranger is strong versus both physical and elemental damage, technically immune to conditions, unescapable, and has the ability to deal high damage whilst healing at the same time. This seems balanced to you?

The only weakness a rouch ranger has is the lack of the ability to remove hexes. Who doesnt suffer from that weakness?

If someone can post any other build that is immune to 90% of all that is guild wars, i'll rest my case. 55's and Spirit Bonders aside, since it only takes shatter enchantment/removal to wreck them (gaping weakness).

The DPS is on 1 target! They are honestly no big deal, I outheal the damage easily with a boon prot in RA. The only difficulty comes is if there are 3 of them in the same group because they will own you without degen/slow. As a monk, my kiting slows down their DPS, rendering them a pretty useless slot in RA/TA as they will 90% of the time attack me. Their stances eventually wear off, and that is when you gank them.

BTW they are only immune to stupid players, not people that actually have a brain in their head.

Last edited by Russell.Crowe; Aug 23, 2006 at 05:42 AM // 05:42..

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Old

Aug 23, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

#87

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Guild: Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Unaccurate

I dont understand how you guys can think touchers are overpowered. Almost every build has a snare, and kiting is very very effective against anything that needs to be in melee range to attack. Just kite the touchers, and its over.

They have dodge, sometimes double. You can't 100% kite them, you can only take less damage. Also, name ten builds that have a snare, since apparently every build has one and there are over a hundred playable builds. I can't see how you think they're NOT overpowered. Do you iway?

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Old

Aug 23, 2006, 10:53 AM // 10:53

#88

TimTimTimma

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Indianapolis

Guild: krazy Guild with Krazzzzy People [krzy]

Profession: Mo/

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Why should I have to modify half of my skill bar and/or secondary to stop one build? That's rediculous. It's been said before, the natural synergies of that build are too powerful.

This is what makes Guildwars unique, there is no one build that can take them all. There is a counter to everything.

If you used your head you would know 2 things about that toucher:

1 - They have to be in melee range (2 feet) in order to execute their touch skills
2 - They use speed enhancing skills to reduce kiting

This build can be countered easily with a combination of a skill and TACTIC.

Hmm, whats that? Yes, tactic. Not all battles are won by skill, infact most battles are won by tactic.

The toucher needs to be in melee ranger to touch right? So kite him.
Oh snap! He uses speed buffs to reduce kiting! If you are a good kiter you can STILL kite the toucher if you kite right I was kiting TWO touchers on my monk yesterday both which had speed buffs, and never had that much pressure (whats even more funny, was I was only running infuse+touch+divine healing on my skill bar for shits and giggles).

Now lets say for instance, you aren't so good at kiting, ok thats fair enough. Try snaring the toucher or bring a speed buff and run away. Now you say "But I don't got any snares, or speed buffs"

Ok, I know some players sometimes dont bring these or aren't good at kiting. Try degening the toucher and keeping out of touch range. Its about your only option left to work with on your limited skillbar and ability.

And if you don't have a snare, a speed buff, aren't good at kiting, and have no degen that can be applied, well then I guess your gonna have to hope your teammates offer some sort of assistance against the toucher.

If they don't I am sorry, I mean, you can't win em all. So stop trying.

Here is a beautiful quote from W.C.Fields

Quote:

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use being a damn fool about it.

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Old

Aug 23, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

#89

Unaccurate

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

They have dodge, sometimes double. You can't 100% kite them, you can only take less damage. Also, name ten builds that have a snare, since apparently every build has one and there are over a hundred playable builds. I can't see how you think they're NOT overpowered. Do you iway?

Lets take a look at very common gvg builds. 2 war 2 mesmer 2 ele 2 monk, either one ele is water or they have gale. 2 war 1 ranger 2 mesmer 1 ele 2 monk, the ranger is usually a cripshot or maybe a trapper. In fact, name a build that doesnt have a snare. Kiting is not to prevent all the damage, it is to prevent a lot of damage.

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Aug 23, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

#90

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Guild: Quite Vulgar [FUN]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe

You do realize that actual rangers with a legitimate ranger build are waaaaaayyyy more annoying than any touchy, correct? I find a ranger spitting poison on everyone in arena play is much more annoying than a touchy focusing on a single friggin target. Why? because the actual ranger is doing more damage, just not to the same target every time. Expertise does not need a nerf, and if it was to be nerfed it would have happened by now so quit crying.

I never said that touchers were more dangerous than a regular ranger. What I said is that touchers, thumpers, and spears rangers are more deadly than their primary professions are.

Might want to read it more closely. As for touchers I don't care. As long as expertise remains this way every new profession with a weapon or attack skill is going to be more efficent on the ranger. This is due to the energy cost of those skills are relative to the primary classe's energy regen and pool. If you make it work balanced for the primary profession expertise is going to make it imbalanced. That's why expertise should be lowered for 2nd professions.

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Aug 23, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

#91

Unaccurate

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

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Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I never said that touchers were more dangerous than a regular ranger. What I said is that touchers, thumpers, and spears rangers are more deadly than their primary professions are.

Might want to read it more closely. As for touchers I don't care. As long as expertise remains this way every new profession with a weapon or attack skill is going to be more efficent on the ranger. This is due to the energy cost of those skills are relative to the primary classe's energy regen and pool. If you make it work balanced for the primary profession expertise is going to make it imbalanced. That's why expertise should be lowered for 2nd professions.

touchers are deadlier than any necro? a thumper is more deadly than any warrior?

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Aug 23, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39	#92
Winx.ZN Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2005	List of Nerf / Buffs Anyone with the time here can sit and count the nerfs vs buffs. This might not be an 100% complete list but I am sure the meat of it is there. Comment on how these actually affected people if they so wish. Dont just pick 1 nerf/buff and hammer on it. Carry on reading down the list, there is a good chance it got rebalanced. (Thanks to GuildWiki for their fountain of information made available free for all to soak up: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Main_Page) Update - Thursday, August 25 2005 [edit]Elementalist Meteor: Lowered Energy cost to 5 Fireball: Lowered Energy cost to 10 and recharge time to 7 seconds Chain Lightning: Increased cast time to 3 seconds; decreased damage to 10..85; changed recharge to 10 seconds; lowered maximum distance between targets Glyph of Sacrifice: Reduced recharge penalty on next spell to 90 seconds Mark of Rodgort: Reduced cast time to 1 second; increased duration of burning effect to 1..4 seconds [edit]Mesmer Cry of Frustration: Lowered casting time to .25 second Mantra of Earth: Lowered Energy cost to 10 Mantra of Flame: Lowered Energy cost to 10 Mantra of Lightning: Lowered Energy cost to 10 Mantra of Frost: Lowered Energy cost to 10 Mantra of Recall: Lowered Energy cost to 10; lowered the amount of Energy you gain back to 3..28 Signet of Humility: Changed the related attribute to Inspiration Magic; changed duration of effect to scale from 1..16 seconds based on rank in Inspiration Magic Shatter Hex: Reduced AOE to "nearby foes"; reduced damage to 30..120 Hex Breaker: Reduced duration to 15..90 seconds Panic: Increased duration to 10..25 seconds; Increased AOE to "nearby foes" [edit]Monk Healing Seed: Lowered Energy cost to 10; Decreased duration to 10 seconds Scourge Sacrifice: Now affects all adjacent targets Restore Condition: Lowered Energy to 5; reduced the amount healed to 10..70 Healing Hands: Increased the amount healed to 5..30 Draw Conditions: Added 1 second recharge time Divine Boon: Added 1 second recharge time Protective Bond: Energy lost per hit increased to 6..3 Aegis: Now only affects party members [edit]Necromancer Putrid Explosion: Increased recharge time to 5 seconds Consume Corpse: Decreased casting time to 1 second; increased Energy gained to 5..20 Blood Renewal: Increased Health regeneration to 3..6 Plague Signet: Decreased recharge time to 10 seconds Deathly Chill: Increased secondary damage to 5..50 Dark Bond: Now affects all damage types, not just physical Barbed Signet: Reduced recharge time to 20 seconds Well of Suffering: Increased duration to 10..30 seconds; increased Health degeneration to 1..6 Grenth's Balance: Reduced recharge time to 15 seconds Spinal Shivers: Increased duration to 10..40 seconds [edit]Ranger Pets: Increased pets' run speed by 20%; increased pets' armor to 80 at level 20 Crippling Shot: Decreased recharge time to 1 second; decreased duration of Cripple to 8 seconds Distracting Shot: Decreased attack time from .75 to .5 seconds Punishing Shot: Decreased attack time from .75 to .5 seconds; increased recharge time to 8 seconds Concussion Shot: Decreased attack time from .75 to .5 seconds Nature's Renewal: Modified to no longer remove all Hexes and Enchantments when cast; now doubles the Energy degeneration for maintained Enchantments Fertile Season: Reduced duration to 15..45 seconds Quickening Zephyr: Increased Energy cost to 25; reduced duration to 15..45 seconds All Spirits: The effects of Spirits no longer work on other Spirits (example: Fertile Season no longer adds Health and armor to other Spirits); also, when a Spirit is cast, it kills all other allied Spirits of the same type within its range [edit]Warrior Dwarven Battle Stance: Increased duration to 5..11 seconds "I Will Survive!": Decreased recharge time to 30 seconds "I Will Avenge You!": Increased AOE to anywhere within your radar Update - Thursday, September 29 2005 [edit]Balance Changes Capped attack speed adjustments at 133% of normal attack speed, down from 150% previously. Changed Enchantments so that if you cast an Enchantment with an upkeep cost and you already have -10 Energy regeneration, you will now lose the last maintained Enchantment you cast. [edit]Mesmer Epidemic - Decreased casting time to .25 seconds. Guilt - Decreased Energy cost to 5. Hex Breaker - Increased recharge time to 15 seconds. Soothing Images - Increased Energy cost to 15. Energy Drain - Skill reworked. New description: “Target foe loses 4..10 Energy. You then gain 2 Energy for each point of Energy target foe lost.” Also increased recharge to 30 seconds. Energy Tap - Skill reworked. New description: “Target foe loses 4..7 Energy. You then gain 2 Energy for each point of Energy target foe lost.” Also increased recharge to 30 seconds. Diversion - Increased casting time to 3; Increased to recharge 10 seconds. Ether Feast - Decreased Energy stolen to 3, increased Health gained per Energy stolen to 17..47 Signet of Weariness - Increased casting time to 2. Fragility - Decreased Energy cost to 10; decreased recharge to 5; decreased damage to 5..20. Mantra of Persistence - Decreased duration to 30 seconds. Decreased recharge to 15 seconds. [edit]Necromancer Necrotic Traversal - Removed delay before teleport. Order of Pain - Only affects party members within radar. Order of the Vampire - Only affects party members within radar. Dark Fury - Only affects party members within radar. Unholy Feast - Now steals 5..50 Health from up to 1..5 foes. Insidious Parasite - Decreased casting time to 1 second. Dark Bond - Decreased Energy cost to 5, decreased recharge to 20. Infuse Condition - Decreased Energy cost to 5, decreased recharge to 20. Vile Touch - Increased damage to 20..65. Desecrate Enchantments - Decreased Energy to 10. Aura of the Lich - Decreased Energy to 10; decreased casting time to 2 seconds; decreased recharge to 20; decreased duration to 15..45; removed “half healing” from description. Rend Enchantments - Now removes 5..9 Enchantments and you lose 55..25 Health for each. Grenth's Balance - Decreased recharge to 10 seconds. Vampiric Touch - Decreased recharge to 2 seconds. Blood Renewal - Decreased sacrifice cost to 25%. Plague Signet - Decreased casting time to 1 second. Faintheartedness - Increased recharge to 8 seconds. [edit]Elementalist Ether Renewal - Decreased duration to 7 seconds; decreased the amount of Energy you gain to 1..3 per Enchantment. Ward Against Foes - Increased Energy cost to 15. Whirlwind - Decreased recharge to 10 seconds. Kinetic Armor - Increased armor gained to 20..80. Magnetic Aura - Decreased Energy cost to 5; decreased casting time to .25; increased duration to 5..20. Ether Prodigy - Decreased duration to 5..20 seconds; increased Energy regeneration to 6. Incendiary Bonds - Increased damage to 20..80. Searing Heat - Removed Exhaustion. Glyph of Sacrifice - Increased duration to 15 seconds. Glyph of Renewal - Now instantly recharges next spell. Rust - Decreased recharge time to 30 seconds. Mind Freeze - Increased slow to 90%. Frozen Burst - Increased damage to 20..110. Ice Spear - Increased damage to 5..65. Lightning Touch - Increased damage to 10..60. Deep Freeze - Increased slow to 66% and increased radius to all foes in the location. Windborne Speed - Increased duration to 5..11. Ice Spikes, Frozen Burst, Shard Storm, Deep Freeze, and Ice Prison - Fixed a bug that prevented these spells from slowing more than 50%. [edit]Monk Smite - Increased conditional damage to 5..35. Divine Intervention - Decreased Energy cost to 5. Shield of Deflection - Decreased Energy cost to 10; decreased casting time to 1 second; decreased duration to 6. Pacifism - Decreased casting time to 2 seconds. Amity - Decreased recharge time to 45 seconds. Mark of Protection - Decreased Energy to 10. Divine Healing - Decreased recharge to 30 seconds. Vital Blessing - Decreased casting time to .75 seconds; increased recharge to 2. Live Vicariously - Decreased Energy cost to 5. Divine Spirit - Increased duration to 1..14 seconds. Holy Strike - Increased conditional damage to 10..55. Draw Conditions - Increased recharge to 2 seconds. Aegis - Increased casting time to 2 seconds. Holy Veil - Decreased Energy cost to 5; decreased casting time to 1 second; increased recharge to 10; added additional effect of removing a Hex when it expires. Balthazar's Aura - Increased casting time to 2 seconds; increased recharge to 25. Zealot's Fire - Decreased damage to 5..35. [edit]Warrior Cleave - Increased damage to 10..30. Endure Pain - Increased duration to 7..18 seconds. Belly Smash - Decreased swing time to 1 second. Earth Shaker - Lowered adrenaline to 8 strikes. Dolyak Signet - Increased armor to 10..40. Shield Bash - Decreased recharge to 20 seconds. Warrior's Endurance - Increased Energy maximum to 5..25. Riposte - Increased damage to 15..60. Deadly Riposte - Increased damage to 5..50. Defy Pain - Increased duration to 12 seconds. Skull Crack - Lowered adrenaline to 9 strikes. Fear Me - Decreased area of effect to all nearby foes. [edit]Ranger Pet Attacks - Now function just like a Shout. Debilitating Shot - Increased recharge to 10 seconds. Called Shot - Decreased Energy to 5 and recharge to 3 seconds. Point Blank Shot - Increased damage to 10..25. Read the Wind - Increased duration to 24 seconds. Escape - Decreased recharge to 30 seconds. Lightning Reflex - Decreased recharge to 45 seconds. Dust Trap - Decreased damage to 10..25; now pulses 5 times. Dodge - Duration now scales 5..11 seconds. Distracting Shot - Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used. Savage Shot - Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used. Concussion Shot - Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used. Punishing Shot - Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used. Update - Thursday March 2 2006 [edit]General Updated Adrenaline behavior so that death removes all Adrenaline. Updated Exhaustion behavior so that if you cast an Exhaustion spell while your maximum energy is below 10, your maximum energy can be reduced to below zero. Fixed a bug that allowed attack speeds to stack past 33%. Fixed a bug that prevented attack debuffs from reducing a target more than 33% (maximum is 50%). Fixed a bug that kept speed boosts from having an effect on you if you had a debuff slowing you by 50%. You are no longer considered "attacking," "using a skill," or "casting a spell" while you are running to get in range of a target. Fixed a bug that caused attack skills with non-weapon attributes to calculate damage and critical hit chance incorrectly. Clarified various skill descriptions [edit]Equipment Added two +30 Health, Received Damage -5 (Chance: 20%) shields to the PvP character creation screen; updated monster drops to make the Received Damage -5 (Chance: 20%) drop possible. Shields on the PvP character creation screen with the "while Hexed" bonus now have +60 Health and -3 damage reduction. Reduced the Lieutenant's Helm Hex duration bonus to 20%, and added it to the PvP character creation screen. Increased the Monk’s PvP Ascetic Leg Design to +2 Energy to match the armor bought off of vendors. Increased the PvP hammer with additional damage while hexed to 20%. [edit]Mesmer Mantra of Resolve: increased Energy cost to 10..4 when interrupted. Distortion: increased Energy cost to 4..1 when you "evade" attacks. Signet of Weariness: reduced area-of-effect to nearby foes. Mantra of Recovery: reduced Energy cost to 10. Ignorance: decreased casting time to 1 second. Chaos Storm: decreased casting time to 1 second. Epidemic: decreased Energy cost to 10. Ineptitude: increased damage to 30..135. Fevered Dreams: increased duration to 10..25 seconds. Energy Drain: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Energy Tap: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Blackout: increased recharge time to 12 seconds. [edit]Necromancer Offering of Blood: increased sacrifice to 20%. Unholy Feast: reduced number of targets affected to 1..4; increased damage to 10..65; reduced recharge to 20 seconds. Enfeebling Blood: reduced recharge to 5 seconds; reduced sacrifice to 10%. Chilblains: Poison now only lasts 10 seconds. Deathly Chill: increased unconditional damage to 5..50; decreased conditional damage to 5..35. Shadow of Fear: reduced recharge time to 5 seconds. Plague Sending: reduced cast time to 1 second; increased recharge time to 5 seconds; fixed a bug that caused this skill to transfer default durations instead of remaining duration. Blood Renewal: fixed a bug that allowed the heal to heal twice when stacked. Insidious Parasite: fixed a bug that prevented the numbers from displaying. Mark of Subversion and Soul Leech: changed their damage from normal to life stealing to match their skill descriptions. Order of the Vampire: no longer triggers if you have other Necromancer Enchantments on you. [edit]Elementalist Gale: increased Energy cost to 10. Conjure Flame: no longer removes Enchantments. Inferno: increased damage to 30..135. Fire Storm: decreased cast time to 2 seconds. Rust: decreased recharge time to 15 seconds. Conjure Frost: no longer removes Enchantments. Conjure Lightning: no longer removes Enchantments. Whirlwind: decreased recharge time to 8 seconds. Flame Burst: increased damage to 15..120. Rodgort's Invocation: increased damage to 15..120. Mark of Rodgort: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds. Lava Font: increased damage to 5..35 per second. Searing Heat: increased damage to 5..35 per second. Lightning Javelin: decreased recharge time to 2 seconds. Mist Form: decreased cast time to 1 second. Lightning Surge: fixed a bug that caused this skill to not trigger properly when its duration was reduced. [edit]Monk Mend Ailment: increased recharge time to 5 seconds. Holy Veil: increased recharge time to 12 seconds. Shield of Regeneration: increased duration to 5..13 seconds. Purge Signet: reduced recharge time to 20 seconds. Shielding Hands: reduced cast time to .25 seconds. Resurrect: reduced cast time to 6 seconds; increased recharge time to 5 seconds. Restore Life: increased recharge time to 5 seconds; increased percentage of Health the target party member is returned with to 20..65%. Scourge Sacrifice: decreased cast time to 1 second. Watchful Spirit: decreased cast time to 1 second. Shield of Deflection: increased armor bonus to 15..30. Aura of Faith: decreased recharge time to 15 seconds. Peace and Harmony: skill reworked. Now ends if ally casts a Spell on target foe or deals damage to a foe; reduced recharge time to 30 seconds. Unyielding Aura: decreased recharge time to 15 seconds; when this Skill ends, it now exploits the ally's corpse. Mark of Protection: now only disables your skills for 5 seconds. Healing Hands: increased the amount healed to 5..35; now triggers on damage instead of attack. Live Vicariously: increased amount healed per swing to 2..17. Light of Dwayna: decreased recharge time to 20 seconds. Martyr: increased cast time to 1 second. Heal Party: increased recharge time to 2 seconds. Balthazar's Aura: fixed a stacking bug. [edit]Warrior Eviscerate: increased adrenaline cost to 8 strikes. "I will avenge you!": reduced attack speed to 25%; fixed a bug that caused this skill to trigger off of dead ally minions. Thrill of Victory: decreased recharge time to 8 seconds. Bull's Strike: now triggers on moving instead of fleeing. Defensive Stance: increased duration to 5..20 seconds. Crude Swing: increased damage to 1..20. Shield Bash: Skill reworked. "The next attack skill against you is blocked. If the attack was a melee attack skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 15 seconds, and the attacker is knocked down." "Shields Up!": now blocks 50% of the time. Defy Pain: decreased adrenaline cost to 6 strikes. Protector's Strike: reduced swing time to .5 seconds; increased recharge time to 3 seconds. Griffon's Sweep: increased damage to 5..20. Deflect Arrows: now ends only when you successfully hit with an attack. Warrior's Endurance: increased duration to 10..23 seconds. Dwarven Battle Stance: now also increases attack speed by 10%. Disciplined Stance: reduced recharge time to 45 seconds. Wary Stance: reduced recharge time to 45 seconds. Riposte: increased damage to 20..80. Deadly Riposte: increased damage to 15..75. Shield Stance: decreased recharge time to 45 seconds. Flurry: fixed a bug that reduced your damage more than 25%. Thrill of Victory: fixed a bug that caused you to gain a little bit of Health when you hit with the attack. Gash: fixed a bug that caused this skill to deal its damage twice; increased damage to 5..20. Bull's Charge: now triggers on moving foes instead of fleeing foes. [edit]Ranger Dust Trap: reduced Blindness duration to 3..8 seconds. Crippling Shot: increased Energy cost to 15; Crippled duration now scales 1..8. Power Shot: increased damage to 10..25. Precision Shot: increased damage to 10..25. Determined Shot: increased damage to 5..20. Maiming Strike: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds. Scavenger Strike: increased damage to 10..25. Symbiotic Bond: increased Health regeneration to 1..3 pips. Bestial Pounce: decreased recharge time to 10 seconds. Feral Lunge: increased damage to 5..35. Melandru's Assault: increased damage to 5..35; decreased recharge time to 5 seconds. Predator's Pounce: increased damage to 5..35. Brutal Strike: increased damage to 5..35; increased conditional damage to 5..35. Practiced Stance: increased bonus duration to 30..150%. Melandru's Resilience: increased Health regeneration to 3 pips. Quick Shot: fixed a bug that caused the arrow to move at a normal speed. Determined Shot: increased damage to 5..20; fixed a bug that prevented the arrow from being "blocked" or "evaded"; fixed a bug that stopped this skill from recharging when missed from obstruction. Update - Wednesday, April 26, 2006 Skill Changes The arrival of Assassins and Ritualists has caused many core professions to re-evaluate their skills. (Please note that the number ranges below, such as 3..8, are for attribute 0 to attribute 15.) [edit]General Signet of Capture: now gives 250 XP for each level you have when used to capture an Elite skill. Without Death Magic, you can control no more than two undead servants. For every two ranks of Death Magic, you can control one additional undead servant. The number of undead servants you control is now displayed. Attempting to use a healing skill or to cast a Hex or Enchantment spell on a Spirit now causes a warning message to display. [edit]Mesmer Energy Surge: decreased Energy lost to 3..8; increased damage per Energy to 10. Energy Burn: decreased Energy lost to 3..8; increased damage per Energy to 10. Energy Tap: fixed bugs causing the inaccurate display of the amount of Energy drained. Epidemic: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds. Illusion of Haste: fixed a bug that prevented this spell from inflicting the Crippled Condition if it ended prematurely. Mantra of Earth, Mantra of Flame, Mantra of Frost, Mantra of Lightning: increased Energy gained per hit to 2. Mantra of Recovery: decreased recharge time to 20 seconds. Power Spike: decreased recharge time to 12 seconds. Signet of Weariness: decreased Energy lost to 3..8. [edit]Necromancer Barbs: decreased recharge time to 20 seconds. Mark of Pain: decreased recharge time to 20 seconds. Weaken Armor: decreased recharge time to 20 seconds. Unholy Feast: decreased cast time to .75 seconds. Wither: increased Health degeneration to 2..4. Verata's Sacrifice: decreased Enchantment duration to 5..10 seconds; increased recharge time to 60 seconds; skill now instantly recharges if you have 3 or fewer undead servants; this skill now only affects undead servants you control. Blood of the Master: decreased Energy cost to 5; decreased recharge time to 2 seconds; decreased sacrifice to 5%; this skill now sacs 2% more Health per creature healed. Animate Bone Minions: decreased Energy cost to 15.. Death Nova: this skill no longer damages the caster and the caster's allies when an uncontrolled creature with Death Nova dies. [edit]Elementalist Aura of Restoration: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds. Fire Attunement: decreased recharge time to 45 seconds. Water Attunement: decreased recharge time to 45 seconds. Air Attunement: decreased recharge time to 45 seconds. Earth Attunement: decreased recharge time to 45 seconds. Elemental Attunement: decreased recharge time to 45 seconds. Flare: increased damage to 20..55. Ice Spear: increased damage to 10..70. Water Trident: increased damage to 10..70. Stone Daggers: increased damage to 8..28. Maelstrom: decreased cast time to 2 seconds. Mark of Rodgort: fixed a bug that limited the Burning duration to 3 seconds regardless of your Fire Magic attribute. Wards: no longer affect Spirits. [edit]Monk Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds. Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies. Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions. [edit]Warrior Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35. Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds. Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7. Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5 Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills. [edit]Ranger Call of Protection: decreased recharge time to 90 seconds. Dual Shot: increased recharge time to 7 seconds. Comfort Animal: no longer disables your skills if used to resurrect your pet. Edge of Extinction: this Spirit no longer damages creatures that are outside of its effect. Antidote Signet: Fixed a bug causing this Signet to remove Conditions other than Blind, Disease, and Poison. Update – Thursday, June 1, 2006 Decreased the Health penalty on attribute-boosting major runes from 50 to 35. Existing runes are unaffected. [edit]SKILL BALANCE CHANGES [edit]All Shadow stepping no longer moves you farther than the radius of the radar. Soul Reaping now only gives half Energy from Spirits. Updated the Victory of Death [sic] path for all NPCs on all guild halls so that the NPCs now spread out at the flag stand. Adjusted the flag spawn locations on all guild halls to be equal distance from the flag stand. [edit]Assassin Way of the Empty Palm: reduced cast time to .25 seconds; reduced recharge time to 25 seconds. Locust's Fury: reduced cast time to 1 second. Siphon Strength: increased the damage reduction your target deals to 5..50. Palm Strike: reduced recharge time to 10 seconds; increased damage to 10..85. Enduring Toxin: reduced cast time to .25 seconds; increased health degeneration to 1..5. Crippling Dagger: reduced recharge time to 5 seconds. Heart of Shadow: increased healing amount to 10..115 Health. Mirrored Stance: reduced recharge time to 15 seconds. Unseen Fury: increased duration to 15..60 seconds. Golden Phoenix Strike: increased Energy cost to 10. Aura of Displacement: increased recharge time to 20 seconds. [edit]Mesmer Stolen Speed: reduced casting time to 1 second; reduced recharge time to 3 seconds; corrected the wording on this skill. Arcane Languor: increased duration to 1..8 seconds. [edit]Elementalist Glyph of Sacrifice: reduced the amount of time it recharges your next spell to 30 seconds. Ward against Harm: changed skill type to Ward Spell. [edit]Monk Vigorous Spirit: increased heal per skill or attack to 5..20. Dwayna's Kiss: increased conditional heal to 10..35 Health. [edit]Warrior Furious Axe: increased adrenaline gained when blocked to 3. Auspicious Parry: increased recharge time to 2 seconds; decreased adrenaline gained to 1..4. Signet of Strength: the number of attacks now update when reapplying this skill. [edit]Ranger Archer Signet: the number of attacks now update when reapplying this skill. [edit]Ritualist Doom: reduced recharge time to 8 seconds. Channeled Strike: reduced recharge time to 8 seconds. Essence Strike: increased the amount of Energy gained when in range of a Spirit to 1..8. Lamentation: reduced Energy cost to 5. Gaze from Beyond: fixed a bug that caused this skill to ignore armor. Ancestors' Rage: reduced casting time to .75 seconds. Splinter Weapon: reduced Energy cost to 5. Resilient Weapon: reduced casting time to 1 second. Vengeful Weapon: increased the amount of Health stolen when this skill is triggered to 15..60 Health. Soul Twisting: increased the recharge time to 15 seconds. Update - Thursday July 13, 2006 SKILL UPDATES [edit]All Lowered the cap for Healing Reduction to 40%. * Lowered the cap for Recharge Reduction to 50%. * You can no longer be knocked down immediately after you respawn from a resurrection shrine. * Note: Like all reduction caps, these only affect the cap from multiple sources. Any single skill that exceeds this cap will still work. Thus, skills such as Lingering Curse or Ritual Lord still gain their full effect. [edit]Assassin Expunge Enchantments: no longer disables pet attack skills. Moebius Strike: now recharges pet attack skills if it hits a foe below 50% health. Return: reduced recharge time to 15 seconds. Shadow Form: increased Energy cost to 10. Shadow Shroud: no longer prevents the casting of untargeted enchantments. Signet of Malice: reduced cast time to .75 seconds. Siphon Speed: increased duration to 5..20 seconds. [edit]Elementalist Bed of Coals: now deals damage only to non-moving foes. Burning Speed: reduced cast time to .25 seconds. Elemental Attunement: this skill is now attributed to Energy Storage; increased duration to 30..55 seconds. Immolate: increased damage to 15..60. Mark of Rodgort: increased duration to 10..35 seconds. Mind Burn: reduced recharge time to 10 seconds. Smoldering Embers: increased damage to 15..60. Ward skills no longer affect spirits. [edit]Mesmer Blackout: reduced blackout time to 2..6 seconds. Conjure Nightmare: removed the long pause after this spell was cast. Illusionary Weaponry: reduced recharge time to 35 seconds. Recurring Insecurity: reduced the duration to 1..10 seconds. Signet of Disenchantment: reduced cast time to 1 second. [edit]Monk Air of Enchantment: added a minimum 1 Energy cost; increased recharge time to 8 seconds. Divine Spirit: now reduces energy cost for Monk spells, not all Monk skills. Infuse Health: fixed a bug that occasionally caused it to execute without healing the target. Life Sheath: now renews damage reduction when it is cast on a target that already has Life Sheath on it. Signet of Rejuvenation: reduced recharge time to 8 seconds; increased the conditional heal to 15..75 Health. Spell Shield: no longer disables skills more than once when renewed. [edit]Necromancer Bitter Chill: increased damage to 15..60. Chilblains: now removes 1..2 Enchantments. Enfeebling Blood: increased the area-of-effect to "nearby". Feast of Corruption: increased Energy cost to 15. Fetid Ground: reduced cast time to .75 seconds. [edit]Ranger Archer's Signet: no longer disables pet attack skills. Broad Head Arrow: reduced recharge time to 15 seconds. Determined Shot: now recharges pet attack skills if it misses. Equinox: reduced recharge time to 45 seconds. Famine: reduced recharge time to 45 seconds. Focused Shot: now disables pet attack skills when used. Greater Conflagration: reduced recharge time to 45 seconds. Lacerate: reduced recharge time to 45 seconds. Marauder's Shot: no longer disables pet attack skills. Oath Shot: increased recharge time to 25 seconds. [edit]Ritualist Displacement: Changed the skill's description to match its behavior. Draw Spirit: reduced cast time to .25 seconds. Lamentation: increased the target's needed proximity to a corpse or Spirit to "in the area". Wielder's Boon: increased conditional heal to 15..60 Health. [edit]Warrior Quivering Blade: increased Daze duration to 8 seconds. Standing Slash: reduced adrenaline cost to 6. "Victory is Mine!": no longer displays "-0" on targets with no conditions. Update - Thursday, August 17, 2006 SKILL UPDATES Modified Edge of Extinction so that creatures must have less than 90% Health remaining in order to be affected. Last edited by Winx.ZN; Aug 23, 2006 at 10:49 PM // 22:49.. Reason: typo here and there.

Old

Aug 24, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

#93

Nilator

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Profession: Mo/

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Real games have changes. It's better for things to be nerfed than buffed to balance, else we end up with 50k damage Javazons.

Plus, EoE change didn't really hurt it that much in PvP..

What about Javazons? Ummm, I believe the term "Javazon" was used in Diablo II? Maybe I'm mistaken, but I have one in LoD. What do they have to do with Guild Wars?

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Old

Aug 24, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

#94

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Grind is subjective

Guild: learn this please

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nilator

What about Javazons? Ummm, I believe the term "Javazon" was used in Diablo II? Maybe I'm mistaken, but I have one in LoD. What do they have to do with Guild Wars?

Avarre is saying that D2 is a horribly balanced game.

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Old

Aug 24, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

#95

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Guild: Quite Vulgar [FUN]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Unaccurate

touchers are deadlier than any necro? a thumper is more deadly than any warrior?

Once again taken out of context.

Necro toucher vs a ranger toucher. Ranger will win

Thumper vs hammer war. Ranger will win.

Spear paragon vs spear ranger. Ranger will win.

Armor is not an object because pragon and war both have 80 AL vs elemental. Ranger has 80 AL vs physical (+10 stance) and even more vs elemental.

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Aug 24, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33	#96
Endiel Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2006	You forgot Dagger rangers, who were better than assassins before assassin skills got changed and nerfed to avoid overpowering R/A's. Unfortunately as a side effect from the expertise abuse, and other nerfs due to other classes utilizing assassin skills better than they could, assassins are weaker than they should be. I don't want to say it, but it seems like favoritism or neglect is becoming an issue. Guild Wars is supposed to sway from cookie-cutter groups, but all I see in the elite missions are the usual holy trinity groups, or lots of rangers, and there's a significant imbalance of what people want in a group, PuG or otherwise.

Old

Aug 24, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

#97

Russell.Crowe

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

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Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I never said that touchers were more dangerous than a regular ranger. What I said is that touchers, thumpers, and spears rangers are more deadly than their primary professions are.

Might want to read it more closely. As for touchers I don't care. As long as expertise remains this way every new profession with a weapon or attack skill is going to be more efficent on the ranger. This is due to the energy cost of those skills are relative to the primary classe's energy regen and pool. If you make it work balanced for the primary profession expertise is going to make it imbalanced. That's why expertise should be lowered for 2nd professions.

Maybe you should RE-WORD what you say, because it looks like you are saying R/N, R/W, and R/P are more dangerous than their primary profession which is RANGER. You should have said having them as secondaries on a ranger is more dangerous than having them as a primary, which is definitely not the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Once again taken out of context.

Necro toucher vs a ranger toucher. Ranger will win

Thumper vs hammer war. Ranger will win.

Spear paragon vs spear ranger. Ranger will win.

Armor is not an object because pragon and war both have 80 AL vs elemental. Ranger has 80 AL vs physical (+10 stance) and even more vs elemental.

First of all, no one in their right mind would run strictly a touch necro. It would be stupid and ineffective, plain and simple. In fact, I've seen it done and it fails horribly. However, a blood spike necro would eventually own up on the touch ranger as they do have degen skills which heal themselves also. The thumper vs. warrior is basically a matter of opinion. What it really comes down to is the person who is better with his/her build. That person would win the fight. The spear paragon vs. the spear ranger you can not say for sure. Paragons have not even been introduced into the game yet, so there is no way you can know that the R/P version is better. If you looked at the Paragons skills over the test weekend, you would realize that it is not a primarily damage dealing class, but a support class by the descriptions of the skills it has. Although, this is not exactly for certain since they have not been released into the game.

The verdict: your argument is stupid and not supported by any facts.

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Aug 24, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06	#98
Unaccurate Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2006	hammer war vs thumper is not a insta thumper win. The thumper has dps but the hammer has spike damage. You havent even seen the paragon much, so how can you make that assumption based on two days of beta testing?

Aug 24, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06	#99
twicky_kid Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Quite Vulgar [FUN]	A thumper will be a hammer war because a thumper can KD the war more than the war can KD the thumper. The thumper can also stay in a 33% IAS stance 100% of the time while the war cannot. I'll 1vs1 scrimmage you any day with a thumper vs a hammer war. I've done it many times before and came out on top. To those that say a thumper cannot spike is absolutely not true. Bash>Crushing and ferocious strike at the same time>IB Look at the current state of the game. Spear paragons were not run during the weekend R/P were. Thumpway is every where not hammer wars. Touchers are every where in RA and AB not touch necros. This is all because of expertise. It is a big imbalance in the game and everything will have to adjusted to make sure its not abused by rangers. While the primary profession will suffer the repercusions. This is also the reason twisted fangs was moved to critical attribute because like the previous poster mentioned a R/A was better than a Sin primary. I expect to see lighting javalin nerfed because of the abuse from R/P while on a paragon primary its not so scary. The facts are every where open up your eyes and take a look. Last edited by twicky_kid; Aug 24, 2006 at 04:09 AM // 04:09..

Old

Aug 24, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

#100

Unaccurate

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

A thumper will be a hammer war because a thumper can KD the war more than the war can KD the thumper. The thumper can also stay in a 33% IAS stance 100% of the time while the war cannot. I'll 1vs1 scrimmage you any day with a thumper vs a hammer war. I've done it many times before and came out on top. To those that say a thumper cannot spike is absolutely not true.

Bash>Crushing and ferocious strike at the same time>IB

Look at the current state of the game. Spear paragons were not run during the weekend R/P were. Thumpway is every where not hammer wars. Touchers are every where in RA and AB not touch necros.

This is all because of expertise. It is a big imbalance in the game and everything will have to adjusted to make sure its not abused by rangers. While the primary profession will suffer the repercusions. This is also the reason twisted fangs was moved to critical attribute because like the previous poster mentioned a R/A was better than a Sin primary. I expect to see lighting javalin nerfed because of the abuse from R/P while on a paragon primary its not so scary.

The facts are every where open up your eyes and take a look.

I will easily sit back and bow adren from your pet, then run up and frenzy dev->crushing->fierce, and bash you a bit for the rest.

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